XLibre
Wiki-Page "Are We XLibre Yet?" #268
Replies: 30 comments 100 replies
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@BecketTocci Thank you for marking GDM as working on this page! A question: Do you use Gnome as well or something else? I'm asking because then GNOME could also be marked as working. |
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I'm sorry, but I've switched back to X.org for now. When, say, an Ubuntu PPA is made, I might try to switch again. I'll keep experimenting on my VM, however. I do know that GDM at least displays, and I wasn't able to get input drivers working anyways, but I think it's safe to say that it works. Thank you for your time. |
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Thank you and you're welcome! I'll give you a ping once a PPA is ready. |
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Thank you. |
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I'm going to try installing it again. I've tried using the new PPA on a VM this time, (Learned that lesson!). It's really slow because of driver issues, but I know how to resolve these driver issues - And they're specific to the VM, so I wouldn't worry about my main PC. |
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It works! I had to mess with drivers for a bit, but I'm in a good spot right now. |
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@hendrack Thank you for marking TDE and TDM as working on this page! A question: Is TDM generally capable of supporting both systemd and elogind? I'm asking because then the comment about this could be removed, as this support is now pretty much standard. |
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I haven't tried with systemd, but the Gentoo ebuild has a systemd USE flag, so it should. TDM has no USE flag for elogind, but it works by adapting the TDM pam.d file for elogind and I have a seat after login and XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is set correct. I am not sure if this USE flag is even relevant at compile time and is just the PAM file. TDE libraries have an elogind USE flag though. |
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Ok, thank you! I wasn't even aware of the TDE Gentoo overlay since it is not listed in the Gentoo Overlays... But yes, looking at the TDM ebuild it should work with systemd. 👍 I will adjust the wiki page. |
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I would like to fundamentally revise the Are We XLibre Yet? · X11Libre/xserver Wiki page to make it more readable and understandable. One major change would be to get rid of the "XLibre Support" columns in the tables that state "Supportive" or "Not supportive" or "Unclear" and replace them by the respective status icons only. To me the columns are relicts from the initial version and now a bit redundant since we have the different headings and introductionary paragraphs above each section. What I would like to do is best shown by an example of the first three sections: DistributionsFirst-party supportThe maintainers of the distribution created packages for XLibre themselves and maintain them.
Third-party supportThere is a third-party repository hosting and maintaining XLibre packages.
No supportThe maintainers of the distribution expressed concerns about packaging XLibre, do not want to add it or removed X11.
Your distribution of choice does not support XLibre? Then please have a look at our 💬 XLibre on Other Distributions Discussion. I think this is way more easier to read and gets the message across quickly and concise. @probonopd What do you think? |
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Really like it. If you really wanted to go to town, you could separate "support available" vs. "support announced" for first-party and third-party. |
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For sure I want to go to town! 😆 But separating the sections even more would be a bit overkill in my opinion so I tagged the announcements of support where appropriate. Overall: done. |
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So, I made the change instinctively. But should we supply notes about desktop environment teams having made public statements that they intend to drop X11 support? On the TDE section, it notes that there are no public plans for Wayland support. |
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Thank you for pointing this out! It is quite deeply buried in their docs and hard to spot.
Yes, absolutly! This page is to inform all XLibre users about what works, what doesn't work, and what may or may not work in the future, so that they can make an informed decision about where to “put their money.” Given your information I'm moving Enlightenment to the "Unclear future X11 support" section. |
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@fredvs Following your question in https://github.com/orgs/X11Libre/discussions/194#discussioncomment-13960022:
I've updated the page as you can see in https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/wiki/Are-We-XLibre-Yet%3F/_compare/4cc75ccfa956824b8067786923b041c9894334e2...5fa8df85b69083e4774daf039483eadd391b9834 . Does that make things clearer, or what would you expect? |
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Update on Void Linux Abby also said something similar when i asked on github what the plan for the default XFCE iso will be moving forward (Mentioned that xfce supports wayland) then she locked the github thread as off topic as you linked on the are we xlibre page Not mad or anything i'm just pointing out that it really does seem like the plan for void linux is once XFCE wayland support is in a working state they intend on dropping x11 altogether |
Every attempt i've made to get answers from abby or any void linux maintainer gets shut down instantly |
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Ok, thank you! I suggest to keep Void Linux in the "Unclear" state and accept:
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Can Void be updated to Hostile? They'll delete and ban any account on their officially maintained subredit that even mentions xlibre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cpqd9T2rCg |
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Nah supported means supported., whether or not they want Xlibre supported |
“Hostile” is an opinion. I think it's great that we refrain from opinions and speculation on this page and strive to list only facts. Regarding the deletion of the screenshot of XLibre running on Void Linux in the Void Linux subreddit r/voidlinux, there was a discussion at Is Void Linux a pro-censorship distro ? · void-linux/void-packages · Discussion #57083. But that was and is really only about the screenshot. To my knowledge, the current state of information regarding XLibre support on Void Linux is correctly reflected on the page. |
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The Arch Linux Devs have removed our supported Xlibre packages from their AUR. |
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Did they just revert that? I can find it in AUR |
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Everything is still in place: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages?O=0&SeB=nd&K=xlibre-x&outdated=&SB=p&SO=d&PP=50&submit=Go as it should be. I'm reverting the page to the AUR is in the "Third-party support" state. |
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@BecketTocci Regarding your changes in https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/wiki/Are-We-XLibre-Yet%3F/_compare/a0010186ebecfea7864e86a8af15b906abccb84a...c7c767e7eb18029b2f447e8d24a635c2a1128e52 : The page has some logic to it:
These things are not wrritten down, so I did now to document at least part of it. |
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I would like to suggest that we proceed with caution in such cases of suspicion. Let's ask first before assuming that someone is hostile towards us. Since I can still find the packages of the XLibre maintainers, I assume that they are still included in the AUR. If not, we should first set the status to “Unclear” and establish direct communication. I know that everyone's nerves are a little frayed, but let's please act cautiously and prudently. |
The packages are visible again; no communication(?) |
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@pugly-tech Thank you for your change "Distinguishing between Ubuntu and Ubuntu Desktop; as Ubuntu is the source for many X11 distros and most of the Ubuntu flavors still rely on X11, while Ubuntu Desktop is the distro with GNOME that is removing wayland support" in https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/wiki/Are-We-XLibre-Yet%3F/b976ecef3eddc3c13638495180b58e8c48c24737. IMO we could add more of the Ubuntu spins like Lubuntu, Xubuntu etc. Would you like to do some of the research and add the results? |
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It might take me some time as I'm gearing up for a big camping trip next weekend. I might as well, but it gets to the point where if I'm doing that I should also do downstream distros like Linux Mint, Zorin OS, KDE Neon, and so on. And while that will extend the list of supported distros considerably it might be seen as padding as they're all relying on the same Xlibre repositories with little to no changes. But it might be helpful to have a long list where people can find their distro without having to look up what the upstream distro is to theirs. |
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Thank you and no pressure (literally).
I was thinking about this as well. On the one hand it may be seen as padding but on the other hand is it known that some people sometimes have problems with abstraction. So it may be worth it to list all the downstream distros. And I tend to opt for the latter. But only listing the ones which have been tested. Either by us or a trustworthy third party. |
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@Jeyso215 I have seen your edit regarding the Solus project in Compare revisions · X11Libre/xserver Wiki. Thank you for your contribution! After reading Switch to X11Libre - Solus Forum as well as June 2025 project status update · AerynOS · Discussion #50 there is no indication that that the Solus project team members themselves describe the XLibre project as close to conspiracy theories. The comment https://github.com/orgs/AerynOS/discussions/50#discussioncomment-13551850 you quoted was made by "someone on the internet". A contributor but IMO no official statement. The sentiment of the Solus project team members is more along the lines of “let's wait and see” - if you want to interpret it positively. They are also concerned that the desktop environments they use (Budgie, Gnome and KDE) have discontinued X11 support. In my opinion, the latter is a valid argument. I would suggest putting Solus in the “Unclear” category. |
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Thank you for your correction of Solus OS and addition of AerynOS. I sorted their entries alphabetically and improved the formatting a little bit. |
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I will not speak for Linux From Scratch (LFS) or its editors, although I am one myself. However, from what I know, XLibre for LFS is in the "we'll wait and see" side of things per https://lists.linuxfromscratch.org/sympa/arc/blfs-dev/2025-06/msg00045.html. On that thread, I mentioned that Supplemental LFS (a third party and community maintained book installing various packages on an LFS system) has XLibre support axed for different reasons. I'm personally against its addition for now but will definitely reconsider in a year or two. In short, I believe the stance for Linux From Scratch is "we'll wait and see". If anyone wants to put that in the list, go ahead! |
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@Zeckmathederg The commit X11Libre: Archived. Fixes #191. · glfs-book/slfs@1cec1a5 states:
Do you know which things got broken? We would like to fix them if possible. |
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Would it make sense to make a distinction between technical support and developer support? For example Xlibre has been ported to Void Linux and works well, but the developers are actively hostile to the project to the point that they ban people for mentioning Xlibre. And we can point out things tangentially related, like how it seems Pastebin banned a user for uploading Xlibre debugging logs |
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There is and will be no "Hostile" section. In my opinion, it does us no good to be outraged about anything and let ourselves be guided by emotions. Please see my comment https://github.com/orgs/X11Libre/discussions/268#discussioncomment-14379740 for the reasoning behind this. Is there any new information in this regard besides what is already stated in this comment? Are there any links, etc., where the developers of Void Linux have explicitly stated their position? |
That's fine, i just respectfully disagree. Considering the people working on this are being called ww2 Germans. And Sept 10th shows they're serious. It's not really that far of a jump for them to be 'we won't even tolerate third parties adding it so we're adding sabotage code'. |
Has this been done by any of the Void Linux maintainers? If so, please provide a source to quote.
I understand that some events in contemporary history can be disturbing. If you feel threatened, please seek advice and support from those around you, as we are unable to provide this here. The focus of this wiki page is on the availability of XLibre. The focus of the overall project is the development of an X display server. |
No, though considering what happened on the 10th stuff like this. https://x.com/LundukeJournal/status/1942269768192737511 The one thing one should take from the event, if they call you something. keep in mind they're telling you what they think. they're not being hyperbolic or childish. |
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The case you describe happened a long time ago and has been documented in Record changes of some guys on the distro support wiki page · Issue #346 · X11Libre/xserver and e.g. has been covered in the video you mentioned too. In my opinion, it doesn't help the project to continue to stick to it. |
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@Kingproone Unfortunately, I had to undo your changes to the page. Reasons:
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The arch situation is just a bother to my eyes, having essentially 4 times as many lines as needed, maybe I'll have a good idea to clean it up. DE support could include things that are newly introduced features in xlibre compared to xorg, and as I gathered from articles, supporting those features would fall under the DEs, not distros. This may be a bit too technical of a differentiation to make, but could fit in as a remark that xy De supports zx xlibre feature. The wip indication: For the first party section, the work in progress emoji indicator fits nicely and in the remark there could be a mention/ ask for testers. The checkmark is a strong indication that it is already prime time supported, so the below edit woudl have another reason (at least in my eyes) to stick. 
but for the third party section it kinda clashes with the description, so ideas: If you would leave the third party section as-is, then either there could be a new table above/under the current one that only has the WIP distros and its own description above it. (I like this one better, since it only introduces one completely new table, but the deduplication of calling for help in option 3 feels like a good idea too, that could be added to the 1st party description as well) Or a new main section under something like 'Upcoming support' with two tables. or or option 3: one-one new table in both first and 3rd party sections with their own description including the call for help, that way the remark columns could be kept cleaner/ deduplicated from the same ask for help. |
Yes, it might bother your eyes. We alltogether have to serve a very wide user base with very different technical skills so we have to make compromises and resort to some very simply, to someone maybe redundant solutions. Also mind you that the table is a simple key value "store": The distribution name is the key, the remark the value containing a link to the package source/tutorial and if applicable a discussion. So the users can lookup their distribtion by just scanning the first column. That is what is important to them. If there is a duplication in the remarks, then the solution is maybe more universal. For example we will add some Arch Linux, Debian and Ubuntu variants in the future as well once we have a verification they work so there may be more duplication of remarks but still: The distribution is the key.
This kind of "feature matrix" could become very complex and I don't see the benefits outweighing this complexity. Our approach is: "It works in general and most edge cases too." Any non-working stuff will be dealt with in the issues section.
Yes, the ✅ indicator is a strong one and its use has a historical background when there was no distinction like "Announced ..." etc. We could rework the "First-party support" table like in your suggestion and my additons:
Please, no new table since "Work in progress" is a sub-attribute of "First-party" and "Third-party". Therefore I would like to (re-) use the very same structure as for the first-party support and mark work in progress as in the example given in the above answer. This would be one sound concept for the whole page IMO. |
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If one table, then the desription needs updating for the 3rd party section. With that I feel the tables will be ready for more entries, of course, it's on you! |
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@Kingproone I updated the "First-party suppport" section based on your comments.
Yes! And there should be a "call to talk" sentence above or below the table for anyone who is willing or already working on a third-party solution for a distribution to let us support him and attract potential contributors. |
I think having some kind of repository with packages or package descriptions is the precondition of getting added to "Are We XLibre Yet?".
Updated when adding the DragonFly BSD third-party entry. 👍 |
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I propose to add just on top of the grids a legend explaining each icons (for stupid like me), something like this: Legend of icons: | ✅ Perfectly ok | 🏗️ In construction | 📣 Announced | ⛔ No support | ❓ Unclear | |
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Done. It is located at the end of the page. |
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@NexusSfan Thank you for adding IceWM to this page in b2a0426e......4f50072f · Compare revisions · X11Libre/xserver Wiki. I followed your idea and created a dedicated section for X11 window managers and their support on resp. for XLibre. |
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Hello all! Is it okay if Void Linux is added to the "Not Supportive" list, since they don't allow XLibre posts on their subreddit? |
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That depends on what happened. So, what happened, where, when, and why? Who was involved? |
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So, a week ago, several people posted on Reddit's Void Linux sub screenshots of XLibre working on the distribution. They were all taken down without a reason given. The vast majority of the Void Linux subreddit is moderated by its developers. Bryan Lunduke covered this in more detail. |
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Yes. Please see discussioncomment-14379740 · Wiki-Page "Are We XLibre Yet?" · X11Libre · Discussion #268 above for more on this topic. |
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Okay, thanks. |
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@xseadgdc Unfortunately, I had to undo your changes to the page in 30726fb7...6830fdeb · Compare revisions · X11Libre/xserver Wiki. Reasons:
I know that some news can be upsetting and emotionally charged, but so far the XLibre project has stayed on track and focused on developing an X Window display server. I think it's best if we continue in this vein. |
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That's okay. I will try to do more and better research next time. |
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@xseadgdc Regarding the “Are We XLibre Yet?” page itself, it is very visible, which comes with greater responsibility and demands for diligence, factual accuracy, and appropriateness in the design of the content. On the other hand, it should also be possible to allow contributors to have a say in the content. My suggestion is that before making any changes related to politically motivated or colored events, we discuss the requirements with each other in order to align our knowledge and assessment of events. To this end, I have added “If you are about to edit this page in response to some political events” to the introductory paragraph. Is that okay with you? |
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Sure thing. Better clarification is always good. |
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After around 150+ small commit and lots of time in CI hell, I have finally managed to setup a CI pipeline for DragonFlyBSD packages too. Should we now change the status of DragonFlyBSD's 3rd party support from 🏗️ to ✅? |
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@b-aaz Very nice, and thanks for your efforts! If it works, it works. So yes, please tell the world too! 😉 |
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@alexisLefebvre I have reviewed your ce5faaaa...0a6b8a64 · Compare revisions · X11Libre/xserver Wiki change and would like to undo it. The deleted source does indeed refer to the same discussion as the source at Chimera Linux, but it is a different post by a different person related to Alpine Linux. If a user only looks at the entry and sources for Alpine Linux on the “Are We XLibre Yet?” page, they will no longer find the deleted source and will therefore be missing information if they do not also look at the source for the Chimera Linux entry. For this reason, I would like to add the deleted source back in. |
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Thanks for the explanation, this has been reverted. |
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Thank you! |
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@probonopd Thank you for adding SonicDE to the Desktop Environments section in c9b51289...2e520b04 · Compare revisions · X11Libre/xserver Wiki An idea: Maybe we could create a new entry for SonicDE in the "Desktop environments" subsections "Currently working on XLibre" and "Future support for X11" as well and just reference it in the KDE entry. Also add a short description where it stems from and what it stands for. What do you think? |
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Sure, go right ahead. It's a wiki, just because I had started the page there is no need to ask for permission ;-) |
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@pugly-tech The revision that you have made is mostly not true. There is a https://github.com/xlibre-debian/ubuntu it is untested, but still, I have no plans to completely drop Ubuntu support. |
Yeah this would probably also be nice. |
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It might be useful just to list the package version for each distro, so that when updates are out they get updated and ones that are on old packaging could be investigated if the packaging is just being held back or if there's an issue that needs to be addressed. However I will step back as I cannot be objective at this time due to personal seasonal stressors |
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I use Linux Mint with https://github.com/xlibre-debian/ubuntu. Never had a problem that wasn't user error. I have a GTX 970 and use proprietary NVDIA drivers. |
Thanks for testing it. I'm sure you noticed the many warnings. I might remove those as I got it to work on a Mint VM as well. |
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I saw the deletions and reached out to @pugly-tech already. My two biggest concerns: These changes were made based on assumptions that could have been clarified by asking questions. The second was that the changes were made at an unfortunate time. Put mildly. At the moment, I don't see any advantages in adding version numbers. It would require more maintenance, and where is the added value? This page is only intended to provide a link to the respective repositories, etc. when it comes to the packages. The specific information can be found there. For me, it is much more important that we reduce the workload of the maintainers, for example through automation, increase staffing levels to compensate for absences, and create a reliable, centralized option for delivering third-party packages. |
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@b-aaz thanks to your great work, there are https://www.freshports.org/x11-servers/xlibre-server/ and https://www.freshports.org/x11-drivers/xlibre-drivers/ now, so do you think the wiki page should be updated to mark FreeBSD as "done"? And do you know why there are amd64 but no aarch64 builds for these packages? |
Thanks! Me and tango discussed it for a bit and decided that we go with WIP for now.
Links related to this topic: |
I believe they have not hit the aarch64 builders yet (I have not received any fallout e-mails as of now ...). |
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Hi @callmetango and all you guys Hi, as I reported here X11Libre/packaging#49 (comment) It seems there is another guy packaging Void https://github.com/xlibre-void/ The person in charge seems this user https://github.com/sofijacom Dunno If we can include this repo in the arewexlibreyet wiki , or have a major collaboration with this dev |
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@callmetango There could be distro grouping added into the tables for arch, debian, fedora, the bsds to help users see where their OS fits in, making a possibly more informed decision. This way all the known supported distros remain in the tables, and I feel the added logical grouping could help organize the lists. here is a mockup of my idea: or with a mixed icon column to avoid adding too much extra width while still adding hierarchy: |
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Yes, this would be nice. |
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@Kingproone Thank you for sharing your idea! I understand that in the case of Arch Linux, it seems obvious to list the derivative distributions directly below it. I see the following disadvantages in this approach:
I think that the hierarchical concept works for individual derivations, but overall it involves compromises and some background knowledge about which distribution is a derivative of which. The alphabetical sorting, on the other hand, is straightforward and easy to understand without any additional knowledge. |
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Budgie does not support X11 anymore. |
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Thank you for pointing this out! I added a note that Budgie Desktop works on XLibre up to Budgie version 10.9. |
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The SteamOS Installer is entirely obsoleted by https://x11libre.net/repo/arch_based/x86_64/README.html, I see no reason for having it here. The script is entirely vibecoded with atrocious quality control, and instead of just installing XLibre it tries to install a non-existent AUR package for what is now SonicDE. Tampering with the user's system configuration is entirely out of the scope of what an XLibre installer should reasonably be expected to do. |
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@catfromplan9 Thank you for pointing that out. The script for installing XLibre on Steam Deck differs from the general installation script for XLibre on Arch Linux in that it is device-specific and distribution-specifc. It for examle removes the read-only mode and also sets up GameScope including a Gamescope launcher depending on whether HDR or SDR is enabled. It is true that it attempts to build the no longer existing AUR package I would appreciate it if you could post your concerns as bug reports or enhancement requests at Issues · HaplessIdiot/xlibresteamdeckinstaller. If these are not addressed, we would indeed have to remove it from the list. |
You can ask him to fix his vibecoded copilot garbage with more copilot and vibecoding, but I refuse to waste my time on that |
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Even though I don't appreciate your refusal to help improve the situation by filing bug reports, you are unfortunately right on this point. The critical error why are there repos not there? · Issue #2 · HaplessIdiot/xlibresteamdeckinstaller has not been addressed for 3 weeks, and it is likely to remain that way. I feel compelled to temporarily remove the entry until we have a working solution. |
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On "Are We XLibre Yet" I saw Enlightenment was marked as needing data -- I can confirm running Enlightenment with XLibre well for a few weeks now; though I may not have put it through all the paces required for a full verification. |
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lets gooooo slackware got official xlibre support! 🎉 |
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@ONykyf this might need fixing |
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yeah now that i removed the conflicting packages it works perfectly |
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@kapijawastaken Would you mind to create a bug report? |
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@callmetango sure, will do |
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Artix has completely removed Xlibre support, the wiki page has been scrubbed. |
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Well, what i read, it seems it's more sonic-de's fault than xlibre. |
I've read through these and don't see what CMT did "wrong"? Can you point it out for me? In this thread he started by asking where the regressions in SonicDE were, for bug reports. Nous replied by linking a bunch of X posts in their own forums. I've seen the Artix team make accusations of this attack by the Xlibre/SonicDE team, read the threads and saw nothing of the sort. it's grand misunderstanding on the part of the Artix team, and a gross over reaction. Can anyone find evidence of this: I've read both sides, X and the Forums, I don't see where Xlibre devs were actively targeting or harassing any Artix team members including Artist. If I'm wrong, show me. |
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Sorry bout that; I didn't have time to read the whole thread. |
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@MordechaiShebuel @Slatepaws @xseadgdc I'd like to kindly ask you to create a new discussion at X11Libre Miscellaneous · Discussions · GitHub. This way, we can have both: the discussion there and, at the same time, the focus here on the wiki page Are We XLibre Yet? · X11Libre/xserver Wiki |
Already done: |
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Peppermint OS is in the process of switching from X11 to XLibre. It is currently in testing in both the Debian and Devuan builds. |
Latest versions 25.2.* have problem when xf86-video-amdgpu installed, during switch avoid automatic xf86-video-amdgpu install |
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Hopefully it goes better than the Void efforts I've experienced. There is an ABI mismatch in the Void repo that makes the system unbootable. |
and others
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